The Future of Home Solar: Battery Storage, EV Integration, and Installation Trends with Joe Ordia

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I think solar age is going to have to do something to address the issue of installation complexity. You mentioned right every time you have a module level power electronic device, that's extra connections but but also additional points of failure that that, frankly, the installer would rather not have to deal with if he or she doesn't have to. In fact, there's, there's a saying in the in solar community that they never roll on one. They never roll on one, meaning that if one micro inverter or one dc optimizer goes down, they're not going to roll a truck just to go

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it. Are you speeding the energy transition here at the out there and fix Clean Power Hour, our host, Tim Montague, bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week. Want to go deeper into decarbonization.

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Today on the Clean Power Hour residential solar technology reviews. My guest today is Joe Ordia. He is the host of the solar surge on Youtube. Welcome to the show, Joe.

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Yeah, thank you. Tim, honored to be on with you.

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It's been great getting to know you a little bit over the years. And I am an avid fan of your YouTube channel. You also are putting content on audio on Spotify and Apple, but your main outlet is YouTube. So check it out solar search, just like it sounds on YouTube. And Joe, I'm curious, how did, how did you get interested in the solar industry to begin with?

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Yeah, thanks, Tim, that's a great question. So I actually got into solar more because I was on a path for emergency preparedness and self sufficiency for my home. And at the time, this is going back all the way back to 2012 you know, I was researching different things to increase self sufficiency, how to grow your own food, how to take care of basic medical needs at home, if you had to.

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But one area that we really focused a lot on was energy how to become energy independent.

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And of course, solar and battery storage is the killer app, or the best technology to enable that, because once you have the system in place and set up, you essentially can live a sustainable, off grid, renewable lifestyle without depending on input from anybody else, namely the big power companies. So that's how I kind of got into it. I wanted to increase energy security and resiliency, self sufficiency for my home and my family. And once I got into it, after a few months, I realized that that this solar technology is so fascinating, so captivating to me, and I felt that I had an aptitude for it based on my my school background in electrical engineering, so I decided to start a solar installation business, and that was What year was that? 13 years ago.

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Okay, cool. So you're an early adopter, and, yeah, I mean, everybody loves solar and batteries once they understand what it can do, right? We're converting sunlight, which is free, to electricity that can run our homes and provide all the goods, really, ultimately, that we need in life. It's it comes at a price, of course, and the good news is that the price is falling dramatically for the last 10 years. And you know, now we have very mature technology, both solar and batteries, I would say, I would, I would install solar and batteries with complete confidence here in 2025 but price is still a consideration. But I'm, you know, the other thing that I am always wondering about when I when I view your channel, is, how on earth do you decide what to cover, because there are so many products out there. You know you're covering very specific solar brands, solar panels, batteries, EV chargers and solar for let's just talk solar panels for a second. Solar panels are a complete commodity.

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They're like light bulbs, and it's a very mature technology, right? It's been around for over 70 years, and yet, when you look at the solar installation companies across America, they're all honing in on a few brands, and that's certainly what we see on your show. So tell me a little bit about how you approach solar technology and what it is that you're looking for when you decide to cover or not cover a certain brand on your show. Yeah,

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that's a great question, Tim and I, I agree with you. There's an overwhelming variety of different options out there for solar equipment, and part of how I view my role. And the role of the solar search channel is to help the consumer cut through a lot of the noise and a lot of the the overwhelm, and really hone in on and focus in on what we feel are the top recommended brands. And we consider a number of factors, but at the end of the day, it's it's really coming down to, is this going to be a product that's reliable, that's fairly priced, and is it a company that we have confidence in is going to be around long term to be able to honor the warranties? And Tim, as you know, you know, in solar, we call it the solar coaster, right? There have been a number of companies that have come into the industry that they've started up. They're not all small contracting businesses.

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Some of these are large manufacturing companies. They get into the solar business, and then they exit five or 10 years later. I can remember LG, right, large. That's

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the first brand that came to mind when you said that about exiting, yeah. So

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yeah. LG, they just kind of abruptly exited solar panel manufacturing back in 2021 and that was after they had even invested in building manufacturing facilities here onshore in the United States. So they got out. Of course, Solar World was a big brand. Back in the day, they ended up having to close shop. I believe they may have had a bankruptcy filing as well. So there's been a lot of this sort of shake up in solar.

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And so to answer your question more directly, my role here at solar surge, I think number one is to help the audience make intelligent, informed decision about going solar for their home, which means, you know, showing them which brands we feel are the best bet for them in terms of current state of the art technology, but also as well as reliability of the company.

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And that's what we've seen in the last 18 months too, is all these new companies have come in. Everybody's got a battery now, or everybody's got a battery inverter, all in one system. There's all these, me too, copycat products on the market. And yeah, sometimes they can attract a lot of attention.

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But again, my role, I think, is to help homeowners really focus in on, hey, these are the real top brands you ought to consider seriously. A lot of the other noise, a lot of the other generics. Maybe you want to just, you know, let let that fall by the wayside. Yeah,

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I totally resonate. And this is, this is hard in solar panels. It's easier in battery storage, I think. And I see a theme definitely on your channel. You know, there's a handful of manufacturers that have risen to the top of the pile. I'll I'll name a couple, Tesla Franklin, Generac, and when you talk to like engineers that test battery storage products as like an owner's rep or owner's engineer, they will tell you, yeah, there's 50 manufacturers, but I would only consider maybe five different brands. So it is still a little early days in batteries. And so your your target audience, though, is the prosumer who is looking for some resiliency, maybe some environmental footprint reduction. What else? When you think about your audience, I'm just curious how you how you frame that and and target, who is it that you're really speaking to?

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Yeah, yeah. Great question. So I think there's a number of different segments that make up our audience, our core audience, probably, and where we started was people that were more on the emergency prepper side of things. They were looking at solar as a way to get off the grid or to protect their home from a potential loss of the electric grid or a long term power outage. Of course, there are more and more folks that would probably put themselves in that bucket now, especially in light of even what we're dealing with today with wildfires and extreme weather conditions in different parts of the country, there are that sort of core group of people that they want solar for emergency preparedness and resiliency self sufficiency.

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Then the next group, of course, is people that want to do solar for environmental reasons, right? They see climate change.

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They see, you know, long term needing to get on a path to being carbon neutral, or to getting getting our energy from other sources. And so they're enthusiastic for solar and battery storage technology for those reasons. And then I would say there's also people that are just sort of technology early adopter people, people that are into maybe they were early adopters of electric vehicles.

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Maybe they're early adopters of computer or mobile phone technology, and they just see solar as another one of these emerging technologies that they want to be a part of. They think it's neat. And so there's all different, you know, folks that make up our audience, there's a number of different motivations for why people seek solar and storage technology. And again, my role is to is to help them cut through the noise of everything that's out there and really provide some good education so that they can go into this solar process, you know, with their eyes wide open, so they can make an intelligent, informed. Decision,

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and of course, the number one reason people install solar is to save money. You can lower your power bill by 50 to 75% by installing a solar array, and that's all well and good until the grid goes down, and then you need a battery also, or a generator, right? Because the solar is going to disconnect from the grid when the grid goes down, if you don't have a generator, either a battery, which sometimes is referred to as a solar generator, or some other fossil fuel generator, and solar, I like to say solar and storage is like peanut butter and jelly. They go extremely well together, and the only challenge is making it pencil, making it cost effective, and having a short payback period.

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I'd love to hear your thoughts about kind of the trends that you've seen in your 13 years in the industry, and what is the threshold that kind of sets off a market because in the US, yeah, we have solar in a lot of states, but we don't have DG, we don't have distributed generation, meaning residential and commercial solar in all places. And the reason for that is the way that solar pencils or doesn't, and this has to do with net metering rules. It has to do with the cost of electricity, and it has to do with state and local incentives that may or may not exist. But how do you see the evolution of our industry and that that tipping point, so to speak? What is it that consumers really need to go, Okay, I'm getting in the pool.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, in many ways, maybe 10 years ago was the golden age for solar in places like California, because you had the combination of high electric rates, I would say, you know, 30 cents per kilowatt hour or higher, electric rates during certain times of the day, and you had full one for one net metering programs, which meant that you could install solar panels, tie it into the electric grid, and you didn't have to take on the extra expense of installing a storage battery. You could just power the house directly on solar during daylight, all your excess solar production got sent to the power company, earning you a full credit on your electric bill, and then you could use those credits to offset your nighttime consumption. So that was really like the golden age for solar.

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That's why it took off, you know, really fast in places like California, also places like Hawaii with higher electric rates and abundant sunshine. And it just made sense, like you said earlier, it just penciled out easily to where, you know, you could pay cash for the system, and the system would pay for itself within five to eight years. Or if you wanted to finance the purchase of the system, the system would pay for itself immediately by essentially getting a low interest, long term loan to pay for the system. And what you save off your electric bill was more than enough to cover the cost of your solar loan payment.

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So that's why I think it took off so fast and so great. And frankly, now we're to a position where there's so much solar on the grid in mature markets like California, Hawaii, Arizona, to where now we've seen the policies have already changed, where there's no longer a full one for one net metering credit, meaning that you can't send them a kilowatt hour during the day and then pull it back at night for an even trade. Now you've got to send them like five or six during the day for every one you get to pull back, which means that your payback is not as fast. Or you have to install your own battery storage. So you really become self sufficient with your energy day and night by using batteries. So you power on solar, you charge the excess into a battery, then you run the home off the batteries during the evening, and then the next day, the solar panels take over, and they recharge the battery.

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And you can just keep repeating that cycle day after day, using the power company as like the power provider of last resort, which which, philosophically, for me, that was the whole idea of me getting into this in the first place was to get homeowners into a position where they could take or leave the power company on their own terms. You know, they had achieved energy security, energy self sufficiency. But, you know, a big drag on that was battery technology. Battery technology was way behind. And Tim, I know you've been in the industry for a while, if I could have shown you some of these battery systems we were doing 1012, years ago. I mean, these things look like science experiments. I mean, these were not the nice Lithium Iron Phosphate nicely polished Tesla Powerwall batteries that you have today. I mean, these were like golf cart and forklift batteries. You had to wire them all together. If you didn't do it right, you spilled battery acid on yourself, you ruin your clothes, and it was like a whole corner of the garage became this little science experiment area with batteries and cables going everywhere. And of course, it had to be ventilated. Some of these batteries get gave off flammable gasses, so you had to have the area ventilated properly, or you have a fire hazard. It was, it was a completely different situation to what we have today. Okay, where we have modern lithium ion or lithium iron phosphate based home batteries that are nicely integrated into sleek, modern looking appliances, where most of those interconnections, the battery interconnections, are done for you. You simply land a few circuits, connect your solar, connect your your grid connection, connect your backup loads, and you've got a, you know, a fully functioning hybrid solar and storage system that can be installed very quickly and at much more, you know, much lower cost.

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Go to chintpowersystems.com or call 855-584-7168, to find out more. So my core audience is solar installers, and some of them are residential and commercial. Some of them are commercial only. But for those installers that are doing resi solar and storage, you know it, it is not easy to settle on what is going to be a best, promotable solution, a the availability chain is very dynamic, right? People love power wall three. The The first question is, can I get any and, and then there's this whole thing about AC versus DC coupling. And it's, it's a little complicated. I'm curious, though, do you have a way to kind of break this down for an installer and go, Well, here's the checklist, or here's the scoring system that I've created? And, you know, are you using micro inverters? Okay, then go this route. Are you using string inverters? Go this route? Yeah. I'm just curious how you frame this and approach this, because I think that would be very useful for my listeners.

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Yeah, no, I appreciate the question. And you know, it's one of these things where, you know it, it depends.

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It really does depend on what your situation is. Now when we talk about, like, let's say AC coupling versus DC coupling, we're talking about, where does the interface between the solar panels and the battery system take place? Is it? Is it on the DC side, which you know, batteries and solar cells are both natively DC, so it is more efficient for them to integrate on that side, or is it on the AC side after the solar panel has already been inverted and sent into the house's electrical system? So the first is, you got to figure out what's what's your situation, or what's your target scenario. If your goal is to retrofit battery storage onto a home that has existing solar then an AC coupling solution is almost always preferred because you can add the battery storage at ground level without having to change any wiring on the roof and without having to void any existing solar equipment warranties that might be in place from the original installer. So I think Franklin the the Franklin whole home solution, does a great job for that battery retrofit for homes that have existing solar as well as just being a large, high power, high capacity battery that also allows generator support. However, if you're looking at a brand new installation and you want to get the most efficient performance, then a dc coupled configuration is going to give you that higher level of performance, because, again, solar panels, solar cells, batteries. Battery cells are natively DC. So if you can keep that electricity in DC format from the roof into the battery cells, you're just going to get a much more efficient solar to battery charging. So for new system installs, you know, I recommend solutions like Tesla Powerwall three, as well as the point guard home battery, where you can take advantage of that more efficient, high voltage, DC coupled configuration. One thing that that point guard does a little bit different than Tesla, is they break the battery down into modular building blocks, and you'll see there's, there's a few other manufacturers that that do this similar design.

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It's a modular stackable design where basically you you build the battery stack with individual storage components, and then you have your your inverter component, or your power Controller component that goes on top. So point guard and EP cube are two examples of.

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Manufacturers that use that architecture. The nice thing about that architecture is it breaks it down into physically smaller blocks, so that the installation can be performed by fewer technicians without having to use any special lift equipment. Now you look at a Tesla power wall or a Franklin battery. The Tesla battery weighs close to 300 pounds, the Franklin battery weighs close to 400 pounds. So it's not something that you can easily maneuver without using a special lift or or, you know, several individuals to set that battery in place. So those are, those are the three or four brands or types that I would, that I would consider. But if you're an installer out there, one thing I would, I would definitely say, is you need to pick one or two and standardize on that first one of the mistakes I made back when I was in the solar installation business was I offered too many batteries, basically just based on customer preference or what was available. And these are brands that you guys probably have not heard of. They're not popular on the market now with this new generation, but back in the off grid community, we used brands like Magnum midnight solar, Outback Schneider Electric and their connect X, W line. But, you know, having all these different battery options available introduced a lot of complexity for our installers.

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They had to be cross trained on all these different systems. You know, small details got lost, which led to additional truck rolls and having to to revisit the same home again and again, multiple service calls. And, you know, in retrospect, I think what we what I should have done, and what I would advise installers watching this to do is pick one or two batteries, standardize on those. Get your guys all trained on those. Get to where you can do that very, very well, to where you can do your estimates with as much accuracy as you've been able to do solar only rooftop estimates in the past, you know, and then maybe consider adding more to your offering. So that's what I would say. Tim and

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one company stands out here that you have not mentioned, and that is end phase, because they're they're very popular for their micro inverter technology. So that's panel level power electronics that are converting the DC to the AC at the panel, and they also have a battery system.

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What? What is your experience with with Enphase?

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So no, I like Enphase. And historically, I've liked Enphase a lot, both as an installer and as sales person, and just as somebody who does product reviews. Now. So we did include the Enphase battery on our top five battery recommendations for 2025 the thing with Enphase, though, of course, is it is, it is a proprietary system. So the Enphase battery is not something that you can retrofit to an existing solar system. You know, the Enphase system is its own ecosystem, if you will. So if you're going to use the Enphase battery, it means you're using the micro inverters, their their combiner, their system controller, their battery, if you want storage. And I believe Enphase is developing a bi directional EV charger that will work on that platform as well.

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But Tim, one of the things that that I think the industry is asking itself right now is, do we still need module level power electronics at all? You know, micro inverters and DC optimizers. This was the standard back in the 20 teens.

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Pretty much every solar system that was installed from about 2014 and on had some sort of module level power electronics, right? Like a piece of electronic on each individual solar panel that allowed you to optimize and track the performance of each individual solar panel now with the dc coupled High Voltage architecture, string inverter architecture sort of re emerging, where Tesla Powerwall three is leading that trend. I think there is this question of, do micro inverters make sense anymore? And, you know, again, I like N phase. I respect N phase a lot because they have excellent service and reliability. I mean, the product itself is very reliable that that core micro inverter product. And when I talk to installers across the country, they they are almost University, almost universally pleased with end phases after install support. And so there's, there's a high degree of loyalty for Enphase amongst the installer community, yeah, but I just, I just don't know if, if the technology is required anymore.

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And of course, again, when you, when you talk about battery storage, every time you're converting DC to AC to DC to get solar off the roof and then back into the battery, you're losing a little bit in that conversion process. And so I think that is a that is a disadvantage for Enphase in today's environment,

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yeah, I mean, in the commercial world, we're definitely seeing a trend away from MLPs, and there's variety of reasons for that. Part of it is the electrical code now allows for rapid shutdown without them and and so that's a thing. If. You can avoid installing all those additional devices, all those additional connectors, that can be a cost savings, time and money. So where are you at on solar edge?

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Because SolarEdge is an interesting company. They're very strong in the residential and very strong in the commercial space. Going through some financial gyrations. You know, last year they announced that they shut down their utility scale storage division, they laid off 30% of their workforce globally, big layoffs, yeah, just curious, what is the signal you're hearing from installers or customers about solar edge? So,

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so solar edge, you know, number one in terms of market share for us residential inverters. But I think solar edge is part of that, that conversation we just touched on earlier, which is, do we still need module level power electronics? And it seems to me what I'm hearing from both folks at Enphase and at solar edge, which is that they are committed to module level power electronics, I don't know, because they've just got too much invested into it, or if they really believe that this is a technology that is still needed in the future. But either way, it seems that solar edge and their competitor end phase, that they are both sort of dug in, invested in module level power electronics. But of course, Tesla continues to to gain market share. You know, they've got, you know, leading market share for us home batteries. And when I talk to installers, installers are very positive on the Tesla power wall three, particularly because it has simplified the installation process so much when it comes to battery storage that installers can now finally install solar with battery storage as profitably and predictably as they were able to install solar only grid tied systems before.

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So I think solar edge, I think solar age is going to have to do something to address the issue of installation complexity. You mentioned right every time you have a module level power electronic device that's extra connections but but also additional points of failure that that, frankly, the installer would rather not have to deal with if he or she doesn't have to. In fact, there's, there's a saying in the installer community that they never roll on one. They never roll on one, meaning that if one micro inverter or one dc optimizer goes down. They're not going to roll a truck just to go out there and fix it. It's too costly for the installer to have to send somebody out there to replace what is only 100 100 or$200 device, right? But it's costing that contractor 400 to$800 in labor and overhead to have to send a crew out there each time. And I think, I think that's that's a real issue that manufacturers like N phase and solar edge are going to have to address, yeah,

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and the time it takes to deal with getting the approval for the RMA that's also a cost center for installers, and I caution my clients, Who are resi and commercial installers, and many of them are very loyal to solar edge because of their legacy in residential solar, but when you get into large commercial that can really come back to bite you having to do replacements of MLPs and just dealing with the customer support. Well, Joe, in our last couple of minutes together, I would love to hear what you think my listeners should have on their radar, both in terms of emerging technologies or trends that you see in the industry.

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Yeah,

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yeah. Well, I think that the next big thing to hit here is going to be bi directional EV charging technology. And for those that may not be familiar with the terminology, bi directional EV charging is essentially the ability for you to plug your electric vehicle into your home and have that vehicle fully integrated with your home's solar and storage and energy management system. So not only could you charge the electric vehicle from the home system, but under certain circumstances, you could discharge the vehicle battery to provide backup power into the home or to sell back to the power grid. If it's peak demand hours and the power company is willing to pay you to access energy that's stored in your battery, it basically becomes a bi directional piece of the system. So I think that's the one to watch now. Now what's going on right now is you've got proprietary solutions being developed by companies like Ford Tesla General Motors, but there's negotiations going on between the solar equipment manufacturers and the electric vehicle manufacturers as to how those those two products, those two systems, can integrate properly, once those standards and those protocols are worked out, I think you're going to see a flood of demand for bi directional EV so I think just, you know, recognizing that that's going to be a massive opportunity. There's millions of electric vehicles that are already in the market, and then, of course, there's a number of of folks that plan to adopt solar and storage. Storage that may elect to use their electric vehicle for the storage component, or they may purchase an electric vehicle for the storage component in place of purchasing just a stationary home battery. So I think that's the next big technology trend to hit. Tim, yep,

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I totally agree this is a big deal. And if you haven't owned an EV, you may not be aware of how big that battery is like in a model Y Tesla, that's a 60 kilowatt hour battery. If you wanted to take the average American home off grid, you would need a 30 kilowatt hour battery and a robust store solar system. But a 60 kilowatt hour battery is a big battery for the average home. Now you also have to think about, well, can the solar charge the battery and give you range and power your home? So it's not, it's a non trivial calculation in terms of off grid operation, but boy, if we could really iron out those wrinkles and it I would, I would argue that it is still very early days for for this bi directional EV charging, and it's unfortunate that Tesla, you know, has kind of resisted this ecosystem historically. And I don't know what Elon's thinking on that is, but it is inevitable that consumers are going to want this once the the light bulbs goes goes off for them, like, hey, 60 kilowatt hour battery in my driveway. Why put something on the garage? And I've already got it sitting in the driveway. I want to hook that up to my solar array. But anything else that we should touch on before we go. No

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Tim, I think that's the big one. Of course. You know, we have inner solar and energy storage North America coming up in San Diego next month. So I hope, I hope to catch up with you out there in San Diego. Oh, yeah, see any, any new products, any new releases that may be launching at that event. But it's an exciting time. You know, solar and but particularly solar with battery storage is coming into maturity. Yes, there are a lot of new participants in the marketplace. It's kind of a noisy marketplace right now, but the market leaders are have products that are now on their their second, third and fourth generation. In some cases, it is a mature, reliable technology.

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And I'm just really excited to see where things go from here.

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If,

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if, if you had to install a bi directional EV and you know, solar system today, and you're just starting with a blank slate, would you lean towards one EV maker or another?

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That's a great question. Ford seems to

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have been very out there in the media about this, but I don't know if that's come to fruition or not.

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Yeah. So, so the Ford solution that's on the marketplace now is still a Ford proprietary solution. But you know, personally, if I were to choose just based on what's on the market now, and which manufacturers have have pledged to support bi directional EV I would probably go with the rivian. I've been looking at rivian for a while now. So, so I plan for that to be my first electric vehicle purchase, the R, 1s and then, you know, I could pair that with a bi directional EV charger, in theory, from any of the leading solar inverter and all in ones like Enphase solar, edge, point guard, what have you. So, yeah, but I think I would go with the rivian eV, since you put me on the spot,

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cool. Well, thanks for bringing up inner solar.

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Look forward to seeing my listeners in San Diego in I think it's February 11 to is that right? February 11 to 13?

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No, that's Boston. It's the it's the last week of February. Last week February. Yeah, last week of February. I'll be there. So look forward to seeing you again, Joe. Thanks so much.

00:33:54.670 --> 00:34:09.519
Check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com. Please give us a rating and a review on Apple or Spotify. Follow us on YouTube, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I love connecting with my listeners, or at cleanpowerhour.com. Joe, how can a How can our listeners find you?

00:34:09.789 --> 00:34:19.030
So YouTube is the best place to find us. Just look for solar surge on YouTube. You can find us on LinkedIn as well, if you'd like to connect for any kind of B to B networking.

00:34:19.960 --> 00:35:17.260
Awesome with that, I'll say, let's grow solar and storage. I'm Tim Montague, thanks so much, Joe. Thanks, Tim, the Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America, maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over eight gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS product lineup includes string inverters ranging from 25 kW to 350 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS, 350 KW is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts. CPS is the world's most bankable inverter brand and is America's number one choice for solar plants. Services now offering solutions for commercial utility ESS and Balance of System Requirements, go to chintpowersystems.com or call 855-584-7168, to find out more, you.

The Future of Home Solar: Battery Storage, EV Integration, and Installation Trends with Joe Ordia | EP262

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