Transforming Homes Into Smart Powerhouses, Kelly Warner, Lumin

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And companies like lumen are at the forefront just, you know, building a better mousetrap in terms of okay, how do we how do we control more kW at a lower cost? And ultimately, you know, the equation is how do you move more kilowatt hours more electrons through the same kilowatt infrastructure. And that's, that's a more ultimately a more efficient model. It's going to lower rates, it's going to create less carbon. And that's, you know, that's what we're a part of,

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are you speeding the energy transition? Here at the Clean Power Hour, our hosts, Tim Montague and John Weaver bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week, I want to go deeper into decarbonisation. We do two, we're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get together we can speed the energy transition.

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Today on the Clean Power Hour, transforming homes into smart power houses. I'm Tim Montague, your host, welcome to the Clean Power Hour, please check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com. Give us a rating and review on Apple and Spotify. Connect with me on LinkedIn, check out our YouTube channel. And I want to welcome Kelly Warner he is the CEO of Lumen or lumen smart. They make a smart panel for load management and electrification of everything. Welcome to the show, Kelly.

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Thank you, Jim.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm really excited about this product. And I, you know, I see a million different products related to the energy transition. And I have to say this is this is very compelling.

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So I think if you're interested in the energy transition, and electrification, please stick around. This is going to be an eye opening interview and product, especially for those of you involved in electrification, solar batteries. And EV charging. So Kelly, give our listeners a little background on yourself.

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Oh, gosh, so been in the energy industry my whole career. It's all I know, Tim, started actually in the mid 80s.

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I did my graduate work at Stanford, and it was all around.

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How do you start integrating supply and demand options into the whole utility planning framework. And so spent, after that half of my career in consulting, you know, doing this type of planning, mostly on the demand side, and implementing programs on the demand side. And then the second half was basically running technology companies like lumen. And so you know, everything from wind power to virtual power plants, and now what we're doing at bloomin with smart electrical panels.

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Very cool. Well, you could be doing many things, Kelly, so why have you chosen lumen? As your as your next big thing?

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Yeah, I mean, a few different reasons. I mean, one is it fits really well, with my background, I understand that, you know, the intersection of the grid and the customer is something that, you know, I've spent a whole career sort of trying to figure out, but I was just very impressed with lumens technology and the way we're going about, you know, creating flexible demand and load management in the residential sector. My previous companies have been more larger scale, commercial, industrial. But, you know, we are basically attacking a challenge that, you know, has to be figured out if this whole electrification scheme is is going to work. And so an igloo Minh has really great approach for dealing with how are we going to how we're going to fit more electrical loads cost effectively into the grid, and also manage distributed energy resources like solar and batteries, and, you know, more cost effective way and a better user experience way. Yeah,

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I think, you know, as my listeners have heard me say, and hopefully you know, this now we're going to triple or quadruple the amount of electricity that we use when we electrify transportation and HVAC and industry right lot, a lot more, a lot more electricity and just thinking residential.

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Now, you know, with the advent of heat pumps, and the incentives that we have, thanks to the IRA, we can electrify HVAC. And of course, we're electrifying transportation, albeit with many hiccups. And, you know, I was listening to a podcast earlier today, Kelly, about the Luddites in England during the Industrial Revolution, right? They were very concerned about their jobs and their future. And I think that is part of the roots of the pushback that we're seeing in the United States, frankly, to electrification of the consumer.

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You know, family car, it's just stunning, how much pushback there is in American society right now. And eventually, the economics will speak for itself, right? The EVs will be cheaper, and then run longer and more affordably for the lifetime cost of the vehicle. We're not quite there yet. But in the next five to 10 years, that's going to happen. And then the ice engine just goes by by it's not a choice, right? It's just going to be more expensive, and people will choose what's more affordable. So anyway, back to my comment about electrification, right? Most homes have either 100 or 200, amp service, you know, most modern homes have a 200 amp service. And, but smaller, older homes have 100 amp service. And so when you want to put solar or you want to put an Evie, charger, or both, sometimes that can be a problem, and you have to upgrade the service. And that adds to cost and delays. And so these innovations like lumen, the smart panel, and we're gonna get into what that is, play a vital role in speeding the energy transition. Do I have that right? No,

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absolutely. And, and lumen is built to scale. So, you know, we're looking at, if you, if you really look at what has to happen to make the energy transition successful, it can't just be cool technologies that go into, you know, very large trophy homes, which is kind of what we've seen as the early adopters of some of the new technologies, we've got to get it out into middle America into low middle income communities that have those 100 amp service panels. And so we've really designed the lumen products to be cost effective in those kinds of settings, and ultimately, you know, make this whole transition more cost effective, helping utilities NOT have to spend, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars upgrading the electric grid, and helping homeowners not to have to spend 10s of 1000s of dollars upgrading their own electric system in their home.

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So, you know, it's a it's a retrofit product. It's looking at how do you deal with existing homes can also be used in a in a in a new home situation. But the real challenge is, you know, how are we going to electrify all of these existing homes? There's research out there that saying there's gonna have to be 50 million electrical panel upgrades to facilitate this move towards electrification. And that's, that's a very expensive proposition. And so, yes, you can create government incentives and things to help with this.

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But ultimately, you got to have the enabling technologies that make this all work.

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Yeah. So as you're adding loads, in the case of residential leads, primarily heat pumps, and Evie charging infrastructure, as you're adding these loads, how does the lumen smart panel play into that? And what is a lumen smart panel? And what exactly does it do? Right.

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So

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basically, it's a it's a load management system, a load control flow control system, we control loads at the circuit level. So your current circuit breaker panel basically has relays in there that circuit breakers that are controlling the loads in your home, and it's there for safety and protection, what we're doing is making some number of those circuits smart and intelligent and controllable. And in that way, you combine hardware with software and, and, you know, information technology to optimize the loads in the home so that you can basically manage the peak loads of the home to a prescribed level. So as as an example, if you're, you know, adding in well, let me talk about first of all the use case of solar and batteries. So typically, when you're installing a battery into your home, it's not designed to cover all the loads in your home. And so typically, what happens when you go from on grid off grid is under a normal setting, you would only be able to access, you know, three, four or five different circuits in your in your home while you're running on your battery power. So called critical loads, right? Yeah, Critical Loads Panel. So with illumined smart panel, you can basically access all the circuits in your home, you just can't access them all at the same time. So our app would allow the homeowner to prioritize their loads and then the software takes over so that we are basically optimizing or juggling the load Just to make sure that the the peak load of the home stays below the rated capacity of the battery or the inverter that it's running on.

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So it's a huge step up in the value proposition for the homeowner in terms of, you know, what they can, how they can experience and use their electrical system while they're on the battery. That same technology and software, we're now applying to the electrification use case. So that same set of relays and computer technology and and monitoring technology, we're able to apply to the objective function of how do you fit more loads into an existing service panel, but kept the loads at that panel rating. And it's, it's, it's very tricky when you're dealing with, you know, small, medium size homes, when you have that 100 amp service panel, and you're trying to put in a 60, amp Evie, charger, you know, that's just us, you're gonna hog a lot of the electrical capacity when that's on. So either you have to spend, you know, 10 grand and up to upgrade your whole system, or, you know, you're using a load management approach like lumen, so that you can manage the loads and keep below that prescribed level.

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So, I would love to just geek out for a second when you're adding solar and battery. Solar alone is nice, right? But you have no backup then Right? when the grid goes down the solar disconnects, by code, and you're without juice when the sun is shining or not.

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If the grid is down, out of battery and micro grid hardware grid goes down system isolates from the grid, let's say it's daylight, and the battery is picking up any, you know, local load combined with the solar, if the if you're away from home, and there's not a lot going on in the home, the solar is charging the battery. But why does that put a load so to speak, on the the infrastructure, the amperage of the main panel, doing the solar and battery upgrade.

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So it I mean, it depends on the whole installation, you know, everyone's sort of different, but in a lot, a lot of times if you're installing the solar and the battery, you have to upgrade your panel in that setting. But not always, really, you know, the, it's that avoiding that.

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That situation where you have a protected Loads Panel, which is very much limiting, you know, how you're operating the system when you're off grid, that is one of the value propositions, but really the other thing is, is you know, we're able to manage and set schedules and and optimize the demand and supply at the home so that you can, for example, harvest more solar energy when when you know the sun is shining, especially with you know, the changes in the utility tariffs, the infamous gnome 3.0 situation in California where you're, you're not getting a very decent return on selling power back to the grid. You can harvest that, that power in your battery. And it's you know, it's economically more beneficial. Okay.

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And there's a few aspects to the system. There's something you call lumen edge, what is that? And how is that relevant to this issue of, you know, being able to have backup with solar battery, and, you know, eventually have additional loads like EB charging and heat pumps.

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Yeah, so our main product is aluminum smart panel, and it's been around for probably four years and it's sort of a mainstay in that solar and battery market. So there are 1000s of them that are installed. It's basically a box at tethers or connects to your existing circuit breaker panel.

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So that's one of our claims to fame is you don't have to replace the circuit breaker panel we leave that intact we leave the breakers there to do their job. And basically we just run in series from the breakers into the lumen smart panel.

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There are 12 relays and sets of monitors and then control systems. So it basically limits smart panel takes a subset of your circuits 12 of them and makes them intelligent and controllable. And that has a certain costs and a certain features that are really optimized for that solar and bad battery use case. So our new product which we are just super excited about is lumen edge is basically a modular version of the lumen smart panel. So same kinds of relays and sensors and all the hardware, but in a modular fashion. So the whole thing we're trying to do with lumen edge is bring down the overall cost of the installed system costs. So not only the hardware, but the installation itself. And that's where we have a huge advantage over all of our other competitors out there. So with with lumen edge, there's a hub, which is basically the computer and the brains and the and the communication system.

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And that plugs into your internet router. And that's how data gets back up through the cloud into our noc. But then it also communicates with individual control modules, which are basically wired in to the which however many number of circuits that you want to control, you can control one circuit, you can control 150 circuits or more if you wanted to. So in this way, we think that a good pairing would be a hub plus for circuit centric control, and we have this motto control what matters, you know, we're really just controlling the big loads in the home that 240 dual pole loads, usually, it's just one load on a circuit so that you know exactly what you're you're getting. So the, you know, the the water heater, the HVAC system, the pool pump may be dryers, things like that.

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So our whole goal is to get the cost of this down while maintaining the overall effectiveness. And we've got it we think, to a cost where, you know, pretty soon you'll be able to, for example, if you if your gas water heater craps out, and you want to go install it with an electric heat pump water heater, that you could go to the distributor or go to a Lowe's or Home Depot, and basically purchase the new water heater and aluminum Edge product and install them at the same time.

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And you've basically, you know, solved the electrification challenge there in terms of cost, effectively getting that new load into your existing electrical infrastructure.

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So today, it's the lumen smart panel tomorrow. It's lumens smart panel plus the lumen edge, which is just adding functionality, is that the gist of that? Well,

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it's it's basically the same functionalities of lumens smart panel is just a, you know, it's a cheaper, easier to install design. So the dilute, so the lumen edge is really targeted for electrification use cases.

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And then utility scale load management. And so like going back to my early days, you know, I've always, I've always viewed the whole electric system as is this entire ecosystem, you know, the the electric guitar, the utilities, and then now we have all the distributed energy resources, and how are they going to be plugging into this, this whole system. And so this kind of fleet management capability allows the grid operators to do a much better, much more efficient job of managing power flows on the grid, when there's demand flexibility in response to either, you know, power flow congestion, or, or just, you know, really high costs. So that's what lumen edge is really geared towards. So it's geared toward, you know, mass mass distribution of these technologies,

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and is an is lumen edge also a retrofit product? It is. Okay, well, what are you? I mean, is the is the lumen edge being sold today, or is that still

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so it is in the process of being launched? So we've been in Okay, and over two years in development, a lot of people have heard about it, a lot of interest in it. And it's targeted commercial releases in September, we are just now launching we call it our pre release program where we are sending out you know, roughly 660 to 100 systems out to a group of utilities and OEM partners that are going to be part of our pre release program where we're basically putting it through its final paces and and you know, letting getting some customer feedback in terms of the overall functionality and the designs of it and more experience on the on the installation side. So systems designed to be able to install in about an hour so it's a really simple thing to install.

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And that's that's why it's getting the level of interest that it scatting from various players.

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The Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America. The maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over six gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS America product lineup includes three phase string inverters ranging from 25 to 275 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS 252 75, is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts, the 250 to 75 pairs well, with CPS America's exceptional data communication controls and energy storage solutions. Go to chintpowersystems.com. To find out more. Yeah, I see that you have announced a partnership with Sonova. Very large residential, solar, solar and battery company. Tell us about that. And and what is that footprint, like what markets are is the lumen or the lumen smart panel available in

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Yeah, so it's it's it's we sell primarily through distributors now. And so the CD green tax and the rec Sol's the world. So that's where you would go and get the lumen smart panel with Sonova as just a huge opportunity for us. And it's a really great partnership, they, you know, they have a financed product that has really weathered a lot of the interest rate hiccups that we've seen in the solar market. And so building in the lumens smart panel is a package that they will be delivering to their customers through their dealer network. And having that be a fully financed solution is is a great way to think gain economies of scale and efficiencies in terms of delivering, you know, solar and storage and load management to the residential market. As you know, they're I think, either one or two in terms of the size of the solar residential market.

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And they're, you know, they're looking, I think they did about 150,000 homes last year, they're going to do more this year, and and they have a pretty high battery attachment rate. So that just opens up huge market channels for for lumen to make our product available through that. through that channel.

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We're pretty psyched about it.

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Yeah.

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I would be too. It opens a lot of doors for you. I mean, it's your It's basically your, your, your Bullseye target market, right, solar and battery. And, and electrification, it's,

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it's, it's certainly a sweet spot, sweet spot and what what what they have not that get too much, they should be talking about their strategy now me, but they have the Sonova adaptive home that they are rolling out and where, you know, basically, they are starting to look at electrification and load management and things like that.

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And we think that the limit smart panel will be a key enabler of that. And so as an interface with between Sonova and their customers and be able to provide, you know, after install services to them over time.

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Yeah, I mean, I think one of the one of the trends that I'm very interested in and, and, you know, I think my, my residential solar installer listeners will will resonate here, like, yesterday, you were a solar installer, tomorrow, you're a EB charging electrification, you know, heat pump, maybe energy efficiency installer, a more three dimensional energy services company, the solar alone installer is definitely going to be a thing of the past if it's not already in, in your market, so to speak. I know there's some late comers to the solar and storage, the, the early adopters of solar and storage, paid a price right, that was a bumpy road. Some of the products worked. Some of them didn't.

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And, and so you had, yeah, just some, some messy situations, but, but batteries, battery integrators are getting better.

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And, and you have to be careful.

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I guess. I mean, you You're certainly well aware of this and it's a double edge. So the other the other big. The other big news for for luminess you have a partner, an investment partner in ABB, the global infrastructure company tell us about ABB s investment what why was that a good fit? Yeah,

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well, ABB is is a powerhouse In the whole electrical world, and they're headquartered over in Switzerland, but they're global, and what they bring to the table, it's not just an investment partnership, it's it started off as a commercial partnership, and then they made an investment also, which, which is great, we're still an early stage company where, you know, we're always looking to, for investors to put capital into the business. So they just bring a lot to the party for us, first of all, sales channels, you know, they have a global network of selling components like this, and the lumen smart panel is something that fits really well into their, their product portfolio. I mean, I don't know what their market share is, but a lot of the, the circuit breaker panels that are out and out in homes are made by ABB, and I think what they're attracted to lumen about is the sophistication of our systems and especially on the software side, you know, it's really, you see, the lumens smart panel is hardware, but it's really the the software that's going on behind it that does these sophisticated optimizations of the power flow in, in the home that is really what makes makes lumen, you know, so unique and our products, so functional, but they're also really helpful. And the challenge for lumen is is how to scale to keep up with the market opportunities we're looking at. They're just, they're just phenomenal. And so having a partner like ABB, who, you know, they know how to build this stuff, and they they have been very helpful to us already, you know, giving us pointers and, and advice on how to scale up our manufacturing, and how to deal with supply chain and you know, all the things that, you know, a company like us will be dealing with, as we as we grow exponentially to meet, you know, the the market demand that we're seeing. So

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what else should our listeners know, I think, you know, it's easy to get excited about this technology, the making the ease of installation of solar and batteries and heat pumps. And EB charging is a very good thing. There's, there's still, you know, some upfront costs challenges to this.

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There's the availability, I'm just curious, like, when you think about making the energy transition go faster, getting more consumers on board, with this technology? What keeps you up at night? And how are you?

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How are you tackling those challenges?

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I just mentioned it that the on the how do we scale is is the one that's you know, I think about a lot because the demand is there on our partnerships are there. So that's all really exciting, I think and I published an op ed piece and Solar World a few months ago about energy equity.

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And that's an issue that's really coming to light and you're seeing a lot of it in the the IRA incentives and the the other programs coming out of DOD that there's a real push to let's get these clean technologies into mainstream America, Middle America, let's not have them be just sort of a early adopter program. But how do we actually make it so that wide percentage of American households can participate in this electrification movement.

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And so it'll be really interesting to see how the commercial markets and the policymakers really respond to making that happen. We're already seeing some pretty interesting programs, you know, being adopted, and in some cases, they're being run by technology companies like Evie companies, in some cases or water here, companies, some cases they're being driven by government agencies. I know out in California, I've been spending a fair amount of time there that they are looking at some really cool innovative electrification programs, targeting LMI communities, you know, basically going door to door and and, you know, retrofitting gas appliances for electric appliances and putting ins, smart panels as a part of that. And part of it is through a lot of the rate designs that are taking place at at utilities, you know, you're getting more and more complex rates. And that's another real benefit of a load management systems like lumens is that you can basically either program the system to respond to like Time Of Use schedules and things like that or respond in real time either to signals from The utility or whoever the aggregator is, doesn't have to be utility could be a Sonova, for example, in responding in real time or through set schedules to optimize your, our consumption in response to economic signals, that's really where the future is going with this is is, you know, how do you how do you create at scale these more flexible demand programs?

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Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned LMI. And, you know, this is a huge swath of America, who generally can't reach into the solar and EB world yet, certainly from an ownership perspective. But are you suggesting that that, like this program in California, you reference, it's, it's it's a grant funded thing, so that homeowners in the LMI category can benefit? Or is it that some third party is going to own the infrastructure or some combination thereof, or some

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combination thereof, I mean, for example, Sonova has a very large partnership with DOD and Puerto Rico, where, you know, they're going into what I would label as LMI communities, and doing major retrofits, and installing solar and batteries and load management systems, really in response to resiliency and those kinds of issues. One in California, is actually funded by the state. It's, it's targeted for later in the year or next year. But you know, those, I mean, there, this has been going on for a long time.

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And so I would say that, like load management is not revolutionary, it's evolutionary, this has been happening for 30 years. And what we're seeing is just better and better technology coming on the market, as well as a market needs, like electrification, or you know, like decarbonisation, that are really driving now, you know, these these global objectives to, you know, to clean up the electric grid. And so, and companies like lumen are at the forefront, just, you know, building a better mousetrap in terms of okay, how do we how do we control more kW at a lower cost? And ultimately, you know, the equation is, how do you move more kilowatt hours more electrons through the same kilowatt infrastructure? And that's, that's a more ultimately a more efficient model, it's going to lower rates, it's going to create less carbon. And that's, you know, that's what we're a part of.

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Yeah, I mean, ultimately, this is why I'm so passionate for the energy transition, it's good for people, you know, it's good for their health, it's good for their pocketbook. It's good for our future. Right, creating a safer, healthier future for humanity stepping back from the brink, potentially, of, of climate change. And, and it's good for the economy, right? We have to, we have to upgrade all this infrastructure, eventually.

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It's not a question of if we're going to make the transition.

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It's how quickly we're going to make it right and how extensively so well, do you have any closing thoughts? Kelly, I've really enjoyed talking with you. I really appreciate your work and your legacy? I would I would, I would, you know, I'll put a put a link to your story in solar power world from August of 2023. Here in the show notes.

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And but yeah, what else would what are what are the closing thoughts? Would you like to share?

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Well, look, I'd love to keep in touch with your jam, because they're things just happening so fast. And I know you're looking at illumines product development roadmap and you know, more partnerships, things like that, that we'll be announcing. It's it's really an exciting time to be in this industry. And like I say, I've been in it for a long time. And I'm just thrilled with what's happening in our, you know, little industry and really happy that lumens making a significant contribution to it.

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Check out lumen at lumensmart.com Connect with me on LinkedIn, Tim Montague, check out my website, cleanpowerhour.com Please give us a rating and a review on Apple or Spotify. Those are the two by far biggest ways that you can hear the show. There's many other platforms, and we have a very robust YouTube channel. All of our content is on YouTube.

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Just click on the YouTube link right there on cleanpowerhour.com and reach out to me though I love hearing from my listeners. So I want to thank Kelly Warner for CEO of lumen for coming on the show today.

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Kelly, how can our listeners find you?

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So it's lumensmart.com, as is where you will find lumens homepage.

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Excellent.

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Well, with that, I'll say let's grow solar and storage. I'm Tim Montague, thank you so much. Hey, listeners.

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This is Tim, I want to give a shout out to all of you. I do this for you, twice a week.

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Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time. I really appreciate you and what you're all about. You are part and parcel of the energy transition, whether you're an energy professional today, or an aspiring energy professional. So thank you, I want to let you know that the Clean Power Hour has launched a listener survey.

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If you would go to cleanpowerhour.com. Click on the About Us link right there on the main navigation that takes you to the about page. And you'll see a big graphic listener survey, just click on that graphic, and it takes just a couple of minutes. If you fill out the survey, I will send you a lovely baseball cap with our logo on it. The other thing I want our listeners to know is that this podcast is made possible by corporate sponsors.

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We have cin power systems, the leading three phase string inverter manufacturer in North America. So check out CPS America. But we are very actively looking for additional support to make this show work.

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And you see here our media kit.

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With all the sponsor benefits and statistics about the show.

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You know we're dropping two episodes a week. We have now over 320,000 downloads on YouTube. And we're getting about 45,000 downloads per month. So this is a great way to bring your brand to our listeners and our listeners our decision makers in clean energy. This includes projects executives, engineers, finance, project management, and many other professionals who are making decisions about and developing, designing, installing and making possible clean energy projects.

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So check out cleanpowerhour.com both our listener survey on the about us and our media kit and become a sponsor today. Thank you so much. Let's go solar and storage

Transforming Homes Into Smart Powerhouses, Kelly Warner, Lumin | EP212

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